Blue Skies in Camelot (Continued): An Alternate 80s and Beyond

[PRM]

Let's catch them early and either lock them up (if they're irredeemable) or help them learn the error of their ways (if possible).

Honestly out of all those people, the only who I see as redeemable in a sense is Charlie Sheen and this may be an unpopular opinion but Clarence Thomas. I mean if he ends up becoming a priest then I could see him kinda not being put in a position where he can harass a lot of woman. (That's just my thinking. Please don't jump down my throat anyone.) All the others like Weinstein, Epstein, and the others. I think by this point, they're too far gone.

 

[MNM041]

Honestly out of all those people, the only who I see as redeemable in a sense is Charlie Sheen and this may be an unpopular opinion but Clarence Thomas. I mean if he ends up becoming a priest then I could see him kinda not being put in a position where he can harass a lot of woman. (That's just my thinking. Please don't jump down my throat anyone.) All the others like Weinstein, Epstein, and the others. I think by this point, they're too far gone.

At the very least, let's just say that Sheen and Corey Haim never did a movie together.

 

[PRM]

At the very least, let's just say that Sheen and Corey Haim never did a movie together.

Don't exactly know the story there. What happened?

Edit: Never mind just looked it up.

 

[MNM041]

Don't exactly know the story there. What happened?

Sheen was one of the people Haim had said abused him during his youth.

 

[historybuff]

Curious who the members were in Healey's war cabinet during the Falkland's War.

 

[Uniquely Genius]

Former US President JFK has been wholly supportive of Bobby's efforts thus far as President. He is also a avoiding the public spotlight, the 1980 US Presidential Election will probably be the last time that he makes many public appearances. Near the end of his life, Jack is focusing on spending as much time as he can with Jackie and their children JFK, Jr, Caroline, Rosie, and Robbie.

That's even better genius! What would be Jack and Jackie spend the time with their children aside sailing, writing, reading, watching television & movies, listening to music, and walking to the beach? Speaking of JFK, what would be his favorite music, television shows, and movies ITTL? You've previously mentioned that he likes Johnny Cash, Star Trek: Phase I, and 2001: A Space Odyssey. I'm assuming he's going to watch Star Trek: Phase II, Star Trek Movies, and even Star Wars Original Trilogy.

Here are my attempts at making several "aged up" photos of President RFK in the 1980's. It isn't much, but I hope you like them @President_Lincoln :

View attachment 903209
View attachment 903210
View attachment 903211

Here's my second attempt at making an aged-up President RFK in the 80's ITTL. Look kinda off, but still somewhat resembled the man:

View attachment 903998
View attachment 903999
View attachment 904000

I've improved all of your AI Images with the help of FaceApp to blend his face and make it close enough for President RFK ITTL. Here's the results genius:

Mr. President, another impressive chapter on The Falklands Conflict. Much of the same as IOTL with the British winning against the Argentinians, but there were some changes ITTL with Denis Healey as UK Prime Minister and Robert Kennedy as US President. While most of the world including the UN are supporting and behind the British, Argentina became an embarrassment on the world stage that caused them to lose the war due to the invasion of the islands, the collapse of military junta by President Galtieri, and his other crimes against humanity. Hoping for him to be arrested and jailed by the ICC with the return of their democracy and election of President Alfonsín. With British Ministers Benn and Foot not in favor of supporting the war due to their principles and being pacifist, what would happen to the Labor Party now that they've resign from their positions. Who would be their replacements after leaving the cabinet?

Prime Minister Healey, lead the country to a better place and have you ever heard of eyebrow trimming? I've seen Frida Kahlo, but this is worse than Martin Scorsese! I've seen his picture while serving during the Second World War, he'd really let his eyebrows grow to the next level after the war. Those damn eyebrows really made me intimidated from the beginning geniuses, I've seen too much and I can't unsee it anymore. Only Charles Barkley have trimmed his eyebrows, now that's what I call a standard.

Well geniuses, we're off to The Personal Computer in the 80's ITTL. By at this decade, this machine would be at every American Households with Microsoft, IBM, and Xerox are competing with each other on who might come up top. With the computers not solely for military, government, scientific, and business purposes; I'm wondering what US President RFK's view on this new technological revolution that have change the way we lived today. I wonder if he would watched the movie WarGames later in 1983 if it's possible to easily hacked military missiles technology because there hasn't been made any law yet. Internet isn't around yet until later in the decade, but it would be way different on how to handle this ITTL. We'll see more of this information in the next chapter updates geniuses.

Having said that, I'm wondering if Ministers Foot and Benn's Resignation from The Healey Cabinet would have effects on Labour internal politics. From what I remember, Labour at this period was very bitterly divided IOTL, with the militant faction like Degsy Hatton causing problems.

Yeah, about that... IOTL, we saw a centrist split-off from a rather militant Labour Party in the form of the SDP, later to merge with the Liberals into LibDem. ITTL, Labour seems to steer a solid centre-left course, and Ministers Foot and Benn have just been made political martyrs for the hard left. I fully expect a leftist split-off. If "Socialist Labour Party" is deemed too extreme, then "Independent Labour Party" might work. I would not expect them to perform very well, especially given British FPTP Electoral Circumstances, but if Prime Minister Healey cuts too deep into traditional Labour support bases, they might gain at least some regional support, e.g. in mining and factory constituencies (parts of Wales and Northern England maybe).

Thank you! I definitely agree that Labour's internal divide will likely split the opposite direction from IOTL. A Benn or Foot-led "Independent Labour Party" will likely fail to attract widespread support, but could siphon away just enough of Labour's base to cost them in close elections. I suspect that they won't play much of a role in '83, but they could prove decisive come 1988 ITTL.

Whatever happens in the UK, Prime Minister Healey should lead the country to a better tomorrow that all the British would benefit and improved their lives ITTL. His party would remain strong and united after winning The Falklands Conflict. With Healey leaving the office after a decade in 1988 ITTL, hoping that someone from his party again to lead and continue what he did for the country. Mr. President, we're looking forward on this one by the time we arrived in 1988 ITTL.

Also, how different is The British Economy ITTL from IOTL? How does Prime Minister Healey deal with Britain's troubling manufacturing sector, with its uncreative management and workforce, as well as the trade unions ITTL?

I'd be interested in that, too.
We have an entirely different economic-theoretical political climate around the globe, though: not Thatcher/Reagan IOTL, but Healey/Kennedy ITTL.
There is a lot of Thatcherist mythology surrounding the alleged "British Patient" of the 1970's too. Not to say the manufacturing sector didn't face serious challenges, what with globalisation coming on as strong IOTL as it did ITTL. But overall, economic growth IOTL's oh-so-horrible Labour 1970's Britain was pretty solid, and that was in spite of two oil price shocks. Now, the Western World's economic motor, i.e. the US, are experiencing a little economic boom, and I fully expect the UK to experience nice growth rates, too. Some British Manufacturers will in all likelihood still run aground - with unions still strong, they can't reform on the backs of their workforce, and no foreign investors are going to take them over, either. There will be localised crises, and Ministers Foot and Benn may call for nationalisations. But I fully trust Prime Minister Healey's Government to do the right thing, taking clues from other progressive governments around the Western World doing similar things around this time: invest in higher and tertiary education to prepare for new highly skilled jobs in the service sector, for example.

Prime Minister Healey's Government will definitely continue to invest in higher education and technological development, while pursuing economic nationalism for the UK. Healey was a Euro-skeptic, and would likely keep the British Economy distant from the EEC, for better or worse.

I agreed with your assessment, with the exception of the last part. I was sincerely hoping that, given the more hopeful timeline, the Kennedy and Healey Governments could rejuvenate American and British Manufacturing, which is on a steady decline thanks to cheaper goods from the booming German and Japanese sectors. As a left-leaning, liberal, but anti-globalist nationalist, I subscribe to the idea espoused by Friedrich List that an industrial nation, no matter the circumstances, should have inland construction of nearly anything it could produce, so that nation could not be bullied much. The US and the UK need more engineers, inventors, agriculturalists, salesmen, scientists, and less management consultants, foreign exchange traders, and bond dealers.

This is also the reason why I very much opposed the creation of NAFTA and the TPP. Mr. President @President_Lincoln , I sincerely hope in this timeline that not only both will not be created but also that the continued move of manufacturing to the Third World will be lessened. President Kennedy and Prime Minister Healey could introduce policies that create strong trade barriers and promote local industry. I don't want America and Britain ITTL to end up becoming a glut of service and information workers combined with widespread weak AI Automation, leading to a terrible underemployment problem with not enough living-wage jobs to keep nearly one-fifth of its population out of poverty, something that sadly is looking more likely in our less pleasant IOTL.

So far, I have not seen any indication that it will be a lot more protectionist ITTL... It would have advantages and disadvantages, but I'll leave that up to our author!

When I wrote about investments in higher and tertiary education and well-paid jobs in the service industry, I didn't think of finance and consulting really, to be honest. "Engineers, inventors, scientists" tend to have bachelors' and masters' degrees and sometimes even doctoral ones, too, so we need higher rates of post-secondary students to bring them forth. The rise of "bullshit jobs" has a lot to do with Thatcherism / Reaganomics and the underlying model of ideal self- and corporate management, but rising rates of university studies could, of course, bring them about as side effects, too. But the rise of finance and consulting jobs is inextricably linked to the deregulatory Voodoo Economics of the 1980's IOTL, without them, there won't be so many banking and investment jobs. I viewed it this way: What makes more sense for Britain to invest - trying to modernise its secondary sector, or trying to be among the forerunners of the digital-industrial revolution? And for the age of computers, internet etc., you need highly trained workforce, too, and places of tertiary education where they acquire it and where worldwide-groundbreaking new ideas are spearheaded.

I hear you loud and clear. I also hope that President Kennedy and Prime Minister Healey can keep their respective countries' manufacturing sectors strong ITTL. This will involve a lot o tough choices and long-term economic planning. Investment in education and technological development is essential. I do believe that over time, both the US and UK will need to shift to more high-tech manufacturing, which requires ever greater amounts of specialization. There can also be a greater emphasis on trades education, to prevent the explosion of costs for tuition in colleges and universities (in the US at least), and to prevent labor shortages in those fields. Kennedy, Healey, and other leaders will need to be wily about how they sell their policies, however. It's hard to argue with consumers about the "necessity" of higher prices.

Thank you for your answer, Mr. President. Indeed, the American Education System needs much-needed reforms for the modern age to help children develop fundamental skills while also promoting different paths. Hopefully the RFK Administration could enact these educational reforms, including but not limited to creating legislation or law that would increase government investment in vocational/trade schools/technical colleges, something that would encourage and support young people in going into blue-collar jobs to help America sustain a healthy number of blue-collar workers.

Hopefully, this could create a Modern 21st Century America where being a blue-collar worker or a pink-collar worker is just as acceptable as being a white-collar one.

Mr. President, I may have to agree with their suggestions when it comes on the American and British Economy and Education ITTL. Hopefully you'll include their ideas and make it work in your next chapter updates. We'll be also looking forward on this one genius. Keep up the good work geniuses!

By the way, here are some people I kind of hope get some form of comeuppance in The So Have I Movement ITTL:

Harvey Weinstein
Jeffery Jones
Charlie Sheen
Donald Trump
John Kricfalusi
Steven Seagal
Clarence Thomas
Scott Baio
Brian Peck
Stanley Kubrick (The way he treated his actors was really inexcusable)
Michael Bloomberg (seriously look up what he said to a pregnant employee)
And of course the obvious, Jeffrey Epstein.

Those are the ones I can think of right now. If anyone can think of any anyone else feel free to add on.

Weinstein and Epstein can be destroyed but unless someone's been convicted IOTL (or it's rather obvious they would have been) probably best not stated openly. Some of those guys are still alive and could sue for Slander after all.

Jeffrey Jones was convicted.
I'm pretty sure Steven Seagal left the country so he wouldn't be.
John K is also essentially confirmed to have done it.
I really don't think I need to justify Clarence Thomas either.
Brian Peck was also found guilty.

Let's catch them early and either lock them up (if they're irredeemable) or help them learn the error of their ways (if possible) ITTL.

Honestly out of all those people, the only who I see as redeemable in a sense is Charlie Sheen and this may be an unpopular opinion but Clarence Thomas. I mean if he ends up becoming a priest then I could see him kinda not being put in a position where he can harass a lot of woman. (That's just my thinking. Please don't jump down my throat anyone.) All the others like Weinstein, Epstein, and the others. I think by this point, they're too far gone.

At the very least, let's just say that Sheen and Corey Haim never did a movie together ITTL.

Don't exactly know the story there. What happened?

Edit: Never mind, just looked it up.

Sheen was one of the people Haim had said abused him during his youth.

We've already put Roman Polanski behind bars ITTL, will it be Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby or Woddy Allen to be next arrested and put behind bars ITTL? Kevin Spacey, Brett Ratner, and Matt Lauer would be a bit later ITTL, but how about Hugh Hefner, the man who've built Playboy? Would he be arrested and put behind bars ITTL. He may have revolutionized the magazine from what it is in Present IOTL, but he made some mistakes and actions that were horrifying and would not fly in today's world. Looking forward on this one as well geniuses.

 

[Nishimura89]

I've improved all of your AI Images with the help of FaceApp to blend his face and make it close enough for President RFK ITTL. Here's the results genius:

I appreciate your effort, but I think the images you created are better for RFK in his 80s. At 54, ITTL Bob Kennedy's still youthful enough; just look at actors like Tom Cruise. I specifically made my images to project an RFK that has aged but still looks youthful enough.

Edit: ITTL RFK's current age is also, I think, the reason Mr. President is still able to use, in BSC's latest updates, Bob Kennedy OTL pictures from the last several years of his life, especially during his time in the Senate. It is still possible that he would not have aged that much since he was killed in 1968 at the age of 42.

 

[MNM041]

By the way, some guys I forgot to mention that I also hope are brought down: Gary Glitter, Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris, and Max Clifford.

 

[Uniquely Genius]

I appreciate your effort, but I think the images you created are better for President RFK in his 80s. At the age of 54, Bobby Kennedy's still youthful enough ITTL; just look at actors like Tom Cruise. I specifically made my images to project that RFK has aged, but still looks youthful enough.

Edit: ITTL, President RFK's current age is also, I think, the reason Mr. President is still able to use it in BSIC's latest updates, Bobby Kennedy's pictures IOTL from the last several years of his life, especially during his time in the Senate. It is still possible that he would not have aged that much since he was killed in 1968 at the age of 43.

Mr. @President_Lincoln, I've just realized that you could've done some AI Images of President RFK in his 50s and beyond the whole time. You've made an AI Image from Midjourney of Marilyn Monroe in her 50s in one of your previous chapter on The Polanski Trial ITTL, and you've done also some AI Images on President Udall Tackles Energy Policy ITTL. It may have slipped from our minds geniuses, but only you can do better than the rest of our suggested photos that we've posted here previously of President RFK ITTL. I'll apologize in advance for the way I respond when it comes to this Mr. President, it's just my honest response.

 

[Sir William Jol]

View attachment 904010View attachment 904011View attachment 904012View attachment 904013View attachment 904014View attachment 904015

Just FYI, you should only post 3 images in a single post in a single day if you want to stay on CalBear's good side.

 

[PRM]

Speaking of predators being caught early... @President_Lincoln do you see anyway for the Roman Catholic Church ITTL to handle their widespread child abuse problem better than IOTL? Or at least have it be exposed much quickly?

(I feel like I've asked a similar question like this before so if this question sounds repetitive I am sorry.)

 

[President_Lincoln]

Speaking of predators being caught early... @President_Lincoln do you see anyway for the Roman Catholic Church ITTL to handle their widespread child abuse problem better than IOTL? Or at least have it be exposed much quickly?

(I feel like I've asked a similar question like this before so if this question sounds repetitive I am sorry.)

No need to apologize.

As a (semi-lapsed but still believing) Catholic man myself, I can say that this issue is near and dear to my heart. In general, I believe that the earlier 'So Have I' movement, if handled correctly, could open the door to earlier public attention and awareness than IOTL. I also believe that this issue, while absolutely systemic within the Catholic Church (which does specifically need to be addressed by the church), is also prevalent in Protestant churches and other organizations (Boy Scouts, etc.) that involve volunteers interacting with (and being given the opportunity to abuse) children as well. The real solution, in my opinion, is to call out this problematic behavior society-wide and make it clear while this is a Catholic problem, it is also very much a wider systemic issue.

 

[PRM]

No need to apologize.

As a (semi-lapsed but still believing) Catholic man myself, I can say that this issue is near and dear to my heart. In general, I believe that the earlier 'So Have I' movement, if handled correctly, could open the door to earlier public attention and awareness than IOTL. I also believe that this issue, while absolutely systemic within the Catholic Church (which does specifically need to be addressed by the church), is also prevalent in Protestant churches and other organizations (Boy Scouts, etc.) that involve volunteers interacting with (and being given the opportunity to abuse) children as well. The real solution, in my opinion, is to call out this problematic behavior society-wide and make it clear while this is a Catholic problem, it is also very much a wider systemic issue.

Yes of course I'm not a catholic myself but my grandfather, may god rest his soul was a devout catholic all his life and brought his children my dad including up into the church and so I have a soft spot in my heart for Catholicism even though I'm not a member and truth be told I don't think I could be a member since I have a lot of disagreements with their certain official statements on some things, I think you could guess what those are.

And you're absolutely right it's not a problem limited to the Catholic Church. I think every religious organization has to deal with a problem like this at one point or another with widespread child abuse and of course the boy scouts and other organizations are just some examples. So you are right that it's a wider systemic issue.

It makes me wonder how RFK would react to it?

 

[historybuff]

Yes of course I'm not a catholic myself but my grandfather, may god rest his soul was a devout catholic all his life and brought his children my dad including up into the church and so I have a soft spot in my heart for Catholicism even though I'm not a member and truth be told I don't think I could be a member since I have a lot of disagreements with their certain official statements on some things, I think you could guess what those are.

And you're absolutely right it's not a problem limited to the Catholic Church. I think every religious organization has to deal with a problem like this at one point or another with widespread child abuse and of course the boy scouts and other organizations are just some examples. So you are right that it's a wider systemic issue.

It makes me wonder how RFK would react to it?

Him, and the rest of the Kennedy family.

 

[PRM]

Him, and the rest of the Kennedy family.

I think in a way they'd all be shocked and disappointed. Bobby would probably be most affected since he's you could argue the most religious out of them. I mean I don't know how devout Ted is but I'm sure he'd have the same reaction. Jack and Jackie I don't know what their reaction I mean I know that Jack has somewhat redevouted himself since the assassination again. All in all I'd say they'd all be hurt one way or another.

 

[President_Lincoln]

I think in a way they'd all be shocked and disappointed. Bobby would probably be most affected since he's you could argue the most religious out of them. I mean I don't know how devout Ted is but I'm sure he'd have the same reaction. Jack and Jackie I don't know what their reaction I mean I know that Jack has somewhat redevouted himself since the assassination again. All in all I'd say they'd all be hurt one way or another.

Absolutely. I agree that Bobby would probably be the hardest hit. All of them will eventually come out in support of the victims and call upon the church to investigate and bring those responsible for these crimes to justice. I could see RFK, the most well known Catholic in the country, coming out in support of the victims as a pretty big moment in terms of optics.

 

[PRM]

Absolutely. I agree that Bobby would probably be the hardest hit. All of them will eventually come out in support of the victims and call upon the church to investigate and bring those responsible for these crimes to justice. I could see RFK, the most well known Catholic in the country, coming out in support of the victims as a pretty big moment in terms of optics.

Also Mr. President do you think that the repercussions of the scandal could actually cause the church to make some much needed reform?

 

[MNM041]

Also Mr. President do you think that the repercussions of the scandal could actually cause the church to make some much needed reform?

I think the repercussions of the scandal would have to be something like multiple high profile priests getting hit with life sentences for anything concrete to happen.

 

[JamesHunter]

I think the repercussions of the scandal would have to be something like multiple high profile priests getting hit with life sentences for anything concrete to happen.

That's pretty much what did happen (eventually) OTL. However idiots like Law decided to bury things and a Pope who was from communist Poland and assumed for too long this was more smears like the Secret Police used on the Polish Church ensured not enough was done. A report detailing everything could have been released and starting the clean up as early as 1985! Instead matters festered until Spotlight printed their exposé in early 2002.

One minor difference from OTL is that the sudden surge in vocations (as a means of draft dodging) would have been most of a decade later. Since that seems to be when (going by age) a fair few of the worst slipped into the Priesthood they'll be much earlier in their careers. If something is done "now" there might be a fair few less victims. Also if the RCC gets a handle on things earlier then the damage to its rep won't be as bad (Francis helped but it's going to be a century before even the average parish priest is trusted as they once were), they can also claim the moral high ground. "We found a mess, cleaned it up...oh and the scum indicated they targeted us for access to kids. Is anyone checking other organisations like ours that might be targeted?"

Also maybe avoid that idiot who equated the problem with homosexual Priest's making his remarks this time? True many Priests are (and probably always have been) gay but if they're not practicing (which they're not meant to be anyway due to celibacy) it's nobodies business but their own and if they are it's probably with adult men which again is breaking the canon law against having sex and nothing more. Saying they're all pedophilic is the blood libel pure and simple.

 

[PRM]

Also maybe avoid that idiot who equated the problem with homosexual Priest's making his remarks this time? True many Priests are (and probably always have been) gay but if they're not practicing (which they're not meant to be anyway due to celibacy) it's nobodies business but their own and if they are it's probably with adult men which again is breaking the canon law against having sex and nothing more. Saying they're all pedophilic is the blood libel pure and simple.

Yeah that really was an idiotic statement. What made it worse is that the guy most likely actually believed that.