The Great Peace: A Long 19th Century

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Aichi72

WheelyWheelyLegsNoFeely said:
It seems to be more of a give-take than a strict dystopia. Democracy may not be as strong, but on the other hand from the OP it sounds like nearly everyone has their most basic needs (healthcare, housing, etc.) provided for, which is certainly more than many OTL states today can claim, and there's also the obvious fact that TTL avoided the devastation wrought by the World Wars. Of course, a lot of this also stems from particular political views which would probably be more appropriate for Chat.
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This is true, while democracy may not be as strong from our perspective, quality of life is much higher than OTL in many countries, especially for people that we might consider among poorest and most vulnerable. ITTL a strong social support network is considered so integral to governance that most states compete with each other to have the best one, the same way states OTL may jockey for the best military or the greatest buildings.
WheelyWheelyLegsNoFeely said:
For my part, I just find it interesting that TTL seems to have a very different political outlook from ours. While I enjoy a lot of the timelines posted here, a criticism I have is that a lot of them seem to assume the ultimate triumph of neoliberalism and values similar to those of our own present, when none of this was set in stone.
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I have notices this trend on this website as well, even when timelines diverge well before the modern period, which is why I deliberately opted for a different approach.
 

Estermont_

Now, I don't wanna get too political but I find it really hard to believe that such a society would exist. Rights and freedoms are never given, they are always taken. No state or business takes care of its citizens/employees because they are "good" or they have "morals", they do that because there had in the past been a struggle to force them to. So such extensive social programs alongside such political restrictions seem incongruent. No politician classist enough to deny non-property owners suffrage would want to give them healthcare or housing. People "below" them could rot for all they care. These things had to be fought for IOTL for a reason.

I'm stopping here because I don't wanna drag this out for too long. This is a nice TL so far, otherwise I wouldn't have commented at all. Hope you get my point though.
 
CarlosTheAltHistoryGuy

CarlosTheAltHistoryGuy

Estermont_ said:
So such extensive social programs alongside such political restrictions seem incongruent. No politician classist enough to deny non-property owners suffrage would want to give them healthcare or housing
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It could done as a way to get the lower classes to "shut up" (i.e. you give them some basic stuff, and they won't complain, Bismarck pretty much did this, so it isn't that out of line from the 19th century mentality)
 

Aichi72

Beatriz said:
Are there still extensive colonial empires or federated descendants in Africa and Asia?
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Asia, there are independent successor states of the colonial empires. Africa never saw as extensive colonialism and direct European control was largely limited to the coasts. Most of these are still part of the European states, though I'm still figuring out exact borders.
 
Middle East and South Asia
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    • Aichi72

    Middle East and South Asia Modern.png

    The Middle East and South Asia in the modern day, plus some teasers for future maps.

    The Empire of India is an independent federal monarchy in personal union with the UK (like an OTL Commonwealth Realm).

    Light blue state north of Iraq is Assyria, a Christian theocracy under the rule of the Patriarch of Baghdad. Christians have become the majority of the population there and in the European Levant due to very extensive and incredibly successful conversion efforts undertaken by France and Austria during the mid- to late-19th century, generous economic incentives to attract Christian immigrants, and generous economic incentives for the remaining Muslims to leave for Arabia or Egypt (though no officially sanctioned expulsions occurred).

    Muscat and Oman never unified ITTL and the darker yellow state in southern Arabia is the UAE, a federal union of the former British protectorates in Arbaia.
     
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    • Pax_Nihil

    Pax_Nihil

    Aichi72 said:
    View attachment 901622
    The Middle East and South Asia in the modern day, plus some teasers for future maps.

    The Empire of India is an independent federal monarchy in personal union with the UK (like an OTL Commonwealth Realm).

    Light blue state north of Iraq is Assyria, a Christian theocracy under the rule of the Patriarch of Baghdad. Christians have become the majority of the population there and in the European Levant due to very extensive and incredibly successful conversion efforts undertaken by France and Austria during the mid- to late-19th century, generous economic incentives to attract Christian immigrants, and generous economic incentives for the remaining Muslims to leave for Arabia or Egypt (though no officially sanctioned expulsions occurred).

    Muscat and Oman never unified ITTL and the darker yellow state in southern Arabia is the UAE, a federal union of the former British protectorates in Arbaia.
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    Don't forget to threadmark your post 3:
     
    Beatriz

    Beatriz

    Aichi72 said:
    Because it was Austrian troops that took it during the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the PoD is so far back that TE Lawrence may as well not exist ITTL.
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    Are local notables represented in the Reichstag or in Syria’s case the Parlement?
    Because extensive integration of regions with milennia of identity - even if the dominant class are Christian Arabs, Maronites and more recent converts (to comply with the Christianization programs and to gain status) never mind groups like the Chehabs who shifted between religions depending on who they were talking to - tends not to work neatly if there is no elite buy in
     
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    Aichi72

    Beatriz said:
    Are local notables represented in the Reichstag or in Syria’s case the Parlement?
    Because extensive integration of regions with milennia of identity - even if the dominant class are Christian Arabs, Maronites and more recent converts (to comply with the Christianization programs and to gain status) never mind groups like the Chehabs who shifted between religions depending on who they were talking to - tends not to work neatly if there is no elite buy in
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    Yes, by 2024, all of the remaining European colonies are fully integrated into the metropole including various rights and responsibilities and representation in teh different legislative bodies.
     
    Reconquest of the Mediterranean Regions
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    • Aichi72

    Aichi72 said:
    Yes, by 2024, all of the remaining European colonies are fully integrated into the metropole including various rights and responsibilities and representation in teh different legislative bodies.
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    Adding to this a bit, ITTL Christians in the Mediterranean region conquered by the European powers had rights and representation from the very beginning as both part of their plans to promote Christianity in those territories and because ITTL the conquest of the Levant and North Africa is seen by the European powers not as part of the colonial efforts of e.g., Sub-Saharan Africa or East/South Asia, but instead as a reconquest of ancient Christian lands in a vein very similar to the Reconquista of Spain, the Crusades, or the liberation of the Balkans. So they had always intended to re-Christianise and integrate these territories, or as an alternative, spin them of as separate kingdoms with cadet branches ruling if the regions were too resive even after the re-Christianisation, though this latter option never had to be used.
     
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    • sarahz

    W
    Aichi72 said:
    This is a timeline I've wanted to do for a while now and is my first timeline. It will consist of maps and maybe flags and wikiboxes of the world in a timeline that has not seen a major war between Great Powers since 1860s (though the actually PoD is as yet undetermined and will likely be between 1812 and 1830.) The first map is of Western Europe in the present day.

    View attachment 888581

    Some brief notes about this world:

    1. The world is generally more socially conservative than OTL. Strong monarchies and powerful aristocracy/old money are the norm in most of the world outside of the US and most of Latin America. The church also plays a large role in the government and religion remains an important part of the lives of the vast majority of people.

    2. The world is also generally more economically liberal than OTL, with most countries having things like universal free healthcare, education, and government housing programs. ITTL most of these are actually associated with conservativism and are presented in a more noblesse oblige/paternalistic way than OTL. Politics in the west typically consist of the aristocracy/old money and the urban workers/rural peasantry represented by the conservative parties vs the middle class and a good chunk of the new money represented by the liberal parties, who are also usually more nationalist than the more cosmopolitan conservatives.

    3. Technology ITTL is more advances than OTL in some ways but behind OTL in other ways. Generally speaking you can assume that civilian technologies are more advanced than OTL (e.g., there are regular Moon missions and a manned Mars mission has already happened) and military technology is further behind OTL (e.g., the most advanced countries would have about 80s level military tech). Technologies that could fall into both categories are advanced in civilian uses but behind in military applications (e.g., nuclear power is ubiquitous but nuclear weapons are non-existant). Other technologies have evolved along different paths to OTL (e.g., the computer exists and is theorestically about as advanced and accessible as OTL, but the Internet was abandoned for civilian use after a few early high-profile security incidents so computers are practically limited to businessmen, gamers, and enthusiasts).
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    whilst the political background might work overall by the 1860's the UK had gone far enough down the path of mass democracy with the formation of the National Liberal Federation and the growing strength of the middle class and non conformist consciences that aristocratic power was well and truly on the back foot. Liberal non conformism would not necessarily be particularly nationalistic in its manifestations, especially if Gladstone remained a major figure and then for Liberals there is always Ireland. Home Rule would need to be addressed even with no war and this would militate against Nationalism in Liberal Circles. additionally if Home rule is successful the residual power of the Lords at least in the UK probably has been addressed and removed. This will actually make radical economics of the Liberal variety rather easier to achieve. Overall if the Lords are curbed and the left does not split in the UK resulting in a largely Conservative rule post 1922 OTL UK the overall result might not be much more conservative if at all than OTL. However there is probably more municipalization than nationalization.
     

    TheBeanieBaron

    1. Does Edward VIII of the United Kingdom still abdicate like IOTL?
    2. Who is the current ruler of Dobruja?
    3. Did Wilhelm II of Nassau (OTL’s William IV of Luxembourg) had any sons to succeed him as Duke of Nassau?
     

    Aichi72

    TheBeanieBaron said:
    1. Does Edward VIII of the United Kingdom still abdicate like IOTL?
    2. Who is the current ruler of Dobruja?
    3. Did Wilhelm II of Nassau (OTL’s William IV of Luxembourg) had any sons to succeed him as Duke of Nassau?
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    1. There was no Edward VIII to abdicate. Prince Albert Victor did not die ITTL and his line rules until 2022 when the then Queen died and passed the Crown to her son, who was of the Norweigan Glucksburgs.
    2. Dobruja is governed by a high council made up of local nobles appointed by the Romanovs the Habsburgs, and Bulgaria. It efectively acts as a neutral buffer state and allows the Habsburg Realms access to the Black Sea via the Danube.
    3. Yes, he and Marie Anne have a son in 1903. Marie Anne serves as Regent from 1912 until 1921. The family still converts to Catholicism ITTL as Nassau became majority Catholic after its expansion into the Rhineland.
     
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