The Fall of the United States

Everdarklegion

Everdarklegion

With the LA Riots, the Waco Siege, Oklahoma City Bombing, World Trade Center Bombing and the Massacre of Columbine, the United States almost collapsed in the 1990s. With the US and USSR gone and New nations taking their place, how would the 21st century look?


(The Nations of the former US:

California Republic- California, Nevada, Oregon, Washington

Republic of Texas- Texas, Puerto Rico, Guam

Rocky Mountain Federation- Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming and Montana

Confederate States of America- Maryland, Virginia, North and South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Tennessee, Oklahoma and Kentucky
Alaskan Republic- Alaska

American Federation- All other states)
 

Scott Washburn

Yeah, it is a pretty hard scenario to rationalize (unless the Yellowstone Supervolcano blows up or something). But if the US and USSR fall part at the same time, then China probably becomes the new Superpower, although even that is questionable. In the early 90's China was still an economic weakling (about 20th GDP in the world) and with no US to trade with they might not grow anywhere near as fast.
 

stubear1012

What is the rationale for the Republic of Texas to have Puerto Rico and Guam?

If I was to forecast what additional lands that Texas would take over, I would go with the following

Oklahoma

Parts of New Mexico east of the Rio Grande.

Northwest Louisiana (Shreveport and Bossier City) which tried to leave Louisiana in the 1870's and join Texas. Economically and Culturally closer to Dallas than Baton Rouge

South West Louisiana which has similarities to the Texas Gulf Coast.
 

Garrison

Donor
Everdarklegion said:
With the LA Riots, the Waco Siege, Oklahoma City Bombing, World Trade Center Bombing and the Massacre of Columbine, the United States almost collapsed in the 1990s. With the US and USSR gone and New nations taking their place, how would the 21st century look?
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Sorry but your premise just doesn't hold up. All of the above were tragic and horrifying but in no way did they bring the USA to the brink of collapse. You need a way better POD than because how the US collapses is going to impact what kind of post USA world you are looking at. Problem is that most of the ways I could see the US breaking up stray far too close to current day politics to discuss here.
 

gmavrom

Kick
Better scenario is liberal socialists win in US, millions of poor pore in from central America. US goes bankrupt because of massive handouts and support for these tens of millions of illegals and it becomes a 3rd world nation except for some states that break away and form a confederation.
 
creighton

creighton

gmavrom said:
Better scenario is liberal socialists win in US, millions of poor pore in from central America. US goes bankrupt because of massive handouts and support for these tens of millions of illegals and it becomes a 3rd world nation except for some states that break away and form a confederation.
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Uh, this is not a more plausible scenario.
 

Colonel Zoidberg

I dispute the premise that the US was anywhere close to collapse in the 90s, but why in the blue hell wouldn’t Hawaii join California? And for that matter, wouldn’t Guam be a better fit for California as well?
 

Arthur Marston

gmavrom said:
Better scenario is liberal socialists win in US, millions of poor pore in from central America. US goes bankrupt because of massive handouts and support for these tens of millions of illegals and it becomes a 3rd world nation except for some states that break away and form a confederation.
Click to expand...
YAGpXPd.png
 
Histor32

Histor32

The 90s? Hell the 90s were like prosperity.. You want a fall of the USA..

Post mark it around now.. But obviously leave out current politics..

But have an incredibly long state of multiple wars .. And idiotic rise in nationalist rangir.. Make California piss off DC ever chance it gets..

A rise in violence..

Terrorist bombings that are American in nature as well as foreign..

More flag waving the military and policecan do no wrong, back them blindly in a flag dripping with blood and corruption..

Have 2008 go very south..
The government has to really screw the pooch..

OH one other problem.. The US military. Who is going to fight them with consumer guns bought at Walmart.. And when the amo runs out for the home squads.. Then what?

Hmm.. 12 gauge.. Predetor drones..

But the 99s didn't suck.. The 80s were not great.. But even they didn't suck..

So yeah what?

The Soviet disbanded itself because everyone gave up on a system.. And I mean everyone.. The system was a lie that everyone knew but chose to belive.

You could get that with the USA, but your gonna have to work a tad harder than your initial thoughts..

And yeah Guam and Texas. Sure that makes sense.. Alaska joins with Florida too right or do they start speaking Russian for some odd reason and join the restored Russian empire.. Cccp v2?
 

stevej713

The US is far more unified than the Soviet Union ever was. A collapse along the lines of the Soviet Union is simply impossible because the US, though it is technically a union of states, is not a union of geographically distinct ethnic groups. Having the US fall apart is about as likely as the same happening to France, or Japan. Also, to repeat what others have said, I remember the 90s and it was a pretty optimistic time. The Waco Siege, Columbine and the Oklahoma City bombing were newsworthy events but not significant in any real geopolitical sense. Even 9/11 demonstrated a high level of unity among Americans, even if it diminished very rapidly.
 

RanulfC

Histor32 wrote:
The 90s? Hell the 90s were like prosperity.. You want a fall of the USA..

Post mark it around now.. But obviously leave out current politics..
Click to expand...

Unfortunately you can’t really leave out “current politics” because they are based on the politics of the ‘90s…

Further you then go on to LIST the “current” issues in detail :)

Though you’re very correct left to our own devices the current trends don’t look good…

Still.

OH one other problem.. The US military. Who is going to fight them with consumer guns bought at Walmart.. And when the ammo runs out for the home squads.. Then what?

Hmm.. 12 gauge.. Predetor drones..
Click to expand...

Wasn’t there a guy in the late 90s claiming to be from the ‘future’ where he fought the US government as a member of a “Shotgun Militia?” If we’re being honest a shotgun CAN be a very versatile weapon system if you take the time and effort to make it one. But it takes time and effort.

But the 99s didn't suck.. The 80s were not great.. But even they didn't suck..

So yeah what?

The Soviet disbanded itself because everyone gave up on a system.. And I mean everyone.. The system was a lie that everyone knew but chose to believe.

You could get that with the USA, but your gonna have to work a tad harder than your initial thoughts..
Click to expand...

A lot harder given the differences between the US and the ‘average’ American and the rest of the world :) We’re weird that way.

There are plenty of people and groups who can be described as not believing or haven given up on the “system” but the main problem is those same people have lost faith and given up on pretty much EVERY system so therefor wouldn’t make a plausible basis for a new ‘nation’ as they have no interest or desire to ‘build’ anything.

Randy
 

RanulfC

EverdarkLegion wrote:
With the LA Riots, the Waco Siege, Oklahoma City Bombing, World Trade Center Bombing and the Massacre of Columbine, the United States almost collapsed in the 1990s. With the US and USSR gone and New nations taking their place, how would the 21st century look?

(The Nations of the former US:
California Republic- California, Nevada, Oregon, Washington
Republic of Texas- Texas, Puerto Rico, Guam
Rocky Mountain Federation- Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming and Montana
Confederate States of America- Maryland, Virginia, North and South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Tennessee, Oklahoma and Kentucky
Alaskan Republic- Alaska
American Federation- All other states)
Click to expand...

Something people who want to use the idea that the US break up want to look at is our culture and the divides therein. That culture tends to run across the north and south border and even within the current known “regions” there are divisions.

See this fine article, (and the book it is based on):
https://www.npr.org/2013/11/11/244527860/forget-the-50-states-u-s-is-really-11-nations-says-author
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-11-nations-of-the-united-states-2015-7

And that’s before you get into the internal conflicts such as “Deseret” (Utah, Idaho, parts of Wyoming and Montana), the “Rust Belt Bible Belt” versus the “Southern Bible Belt”, Northern California which despises Southern California and the feeling is mutual, and others.

The problem is getting the US to break up. Of those situations you noted I’ll point out that at no point DURING those crisis was the US in danger of breaking up and arguably OKC, the WT bombing and 9/11 ended up being a more positive effect on US unity than negative. The most likely scenario is during a more natural national crisis, (The plague from “The Postman” comes to mind) when sectional divisions are high that various forces within the US take the ‘opportunity’ to wrest control from central US authority and due to the ongoing crisis the central government can’t do much about it.

The problem is a big enough crisis that is that debilitation to the central government is likely seriously worse on the state and local level and therefore the amount of damage to even local infrastructure and organization makes the idea of restructuring into new ‘nations’ a distant thing in and of itself.

Gmavrom wrote:
Free Bait! No substance or support! Take as much as you like!
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Creighton wrote:
Uh, this is not a plausible scenario.
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Wasn’t meant to be or to add anything to the discussion. It was bait pure and simple.

Randy
 
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