WI: Umar ibn Hafsun defeats the Umayyads - Mozarab/Muladí Al-Andalus

OTL, this group will gain popularity
The opposite, the ummayds use them to have a powerbase outside native faris,here the push for using native Faris among muladi and Berber would make them superfluous or even to dismantle to not give a rival a powerbase

and the Faris mystique was something like this
800px-Farys.jpg
 
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The opposite,
I wrote it wrong "The correct one would be had gained popularity " Sorry
there the push for using native Faris among muladi and Berber would make them superfluous or even to dismantle to not give a rival a powerbase
This is an interesting thing to think about. When the slave soldier is on the rise in the Islamic world, the opposite would occur in Al-Andalus. This in theory is great, while Mamelukes are great warriors they are terrible for the health of the country, especially when they take power. A good example is the Mamluks in Egypt who withstood the Mongol advance but at the same time stagnated and in many ways destroyed the Egyptian economy (with the country becoming a cash cow for the Venizians with Mamluk support).
and the Faris mystique was something like this
Yes, especially in the Middle East. But this image of Faris is what a Banu Qasi knight would look like. So considering that he is not Arab or Berber, the climate and environment is not the same, I would say that Faris is well represented in this case. Islamic iberia has a tradition of adopting more European armor (especially if we are talking about locals and not outside groups). The armor of the last emir of Granada, for example, was European.
Given how tolerant Al-Andalus was, could it be possible for a colonial Al Andalus in the America to develop the exact level of tolerance to the Native Americans?
No, because Andalus was not tolerant. Well, no more or less than other Islamic kingdoms of the time. Even with the reforms imposed by Umar that will make this issue considerably more flexible, it is always in the context of Abrahamic religions. That is, in the religions tolerated by Islam (Christianity and Judaism), paganism will not be tolerated or accepted. Now whether they are going to enter the new world dispute or not, natives will be converted or given the sword (similar to what happened with the Christian powers).
 
This is an interesting thing to think about. When the slave soldier is on the rise in the Islamic world, the opposite would occur in Al-Andalus.
That's an unique butterfly when you raise that support base, doesn't need the proto mercenaries as you know can get professional and semi professional soldiers instead.

Given how tolerant Al-Andalus was, could it be possible for a colonial Al Andalus in the America to develop the exact level of tolerance to the Native Americans?
Butterflies, there thousands of butterflies.
 
I wrote it wrong "The correct one would be had gained popularity " Sorry

This is an interesting thing to think about. When the slave soldier is on the rise in the Islamic world, the opposite would occur in Al-Andalus. This in theory is great, while Mamelukes are great warriors they are terrible for the health of the country, especially when they take power. A good example is the Mamluks in Egypt who withstood the Mongol advance but at the same time stagnated and in many ways destroyed the Egyptian economy (with the country becoming a cash cow for the Venizians with Mamluk support).

Yes, especially in the Middle East. But this image of Faris is what a Banu Qasi knight would look like. So considering that he is not Arab or Berber, the climate and environment is not the same, I would say that Faris is well represented in this case. Islamic iberia has a tradition of adopting more European armor (especially if we are talking about locals and not outside groups). The armor of the last emir of Granada, for example, was European.

No, because Andalus was not tolerant. Well, no more or less than other Islamic kingdoms of the time. Even with the reforms imposed by Umar that will make this issue considerably more flexible, it is always in the context of Abrahamic religions. That is, in the religions tolerated by Islam (Christianity and Judaism), paganism will not be tolerated or accepted. Now whether they are going to enter the new world dispute or not, natives will be converted or given the sword (similar to what happened with the Christian powers).
is the mita system when desacralized compatible with Ummayad doctrine.
 
can get professional and semi professional soldiers instead.
It is curious what would be the best comparison to this Andalusian army. In Egypt we have the Mameluks, perhaps it would be similar to the Khurasaniyya of the Abbasid Caliphate, or a medieval army.
is the mita system when desacralized compatible with Ummayad doctrine.
Well theoretically no, for the Umayyads and the Hafsun dynasty. Now, if by chance they are conquered, the work system will be exploited in the same way as it was by the Spanish.
 
How does Andalusian culture develop without Arabization?
Probably merges the Arabic and Romance cultural and linguistic aspects together, like middle English
As mentioned before, Andalusian Romance was very functional closer to castillan/italian than Arabic or other languages, if anything you could see evolving with elements of otl Portugese, but Arabic would still have the importance as the liturgical language and the common tongue of MENA
 
How does Andalusian culture develop without Arabization?
well the writing will be Arabic in nature (although Latin can remain as the second written form of the state). Regarding culture, certain Arab customs will be adopted, which I don't know. As a whole we will probably have a rise (or a reascension) of Visigothic culture (in addition to Greco-Roman culture). Together with the strengthening of Mozarabica culture.
Probably merges the Arabic and Romance cultural and linguistic aspects together, like middle English
Nivek posted a video a few pages before with a video of the Mozarabic language. It is basically weird Spanish.
 
What Iberia would be like in the 10th and 11th centuries would be interesting. We have events like Islamic zenith and the Vikings.

PS: @HumptyDumpty You seem to be a person that likes these kinds of subjects such as the ones discussed in this thread.
 
What Iberia would be like in the 10th and 11th centuries would be interesting. We have events like Islamic zenith and the Vikings.

PS: @HumptyDumpty You seem to be a person that likes these kinds of subjects such as the ones discussed in this thread.
OTL andalusian were able to deal with Vikes with the likes of greek fires and other tactics..some even settled and some even convert(the al-magus as they called them) become cheesemakers..dunno who ocuppy the north of the peninsula but ITTL both Andalusia and the mountain kingdoms will deal as OTL
 
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